HoM 5 suggestions

EDH sounds fantastic. Requiring 100 picks does seem problematic, though. I'm sure that no one wants the draft to take longer than previous ones. There seem to be three solutions:

• draft two cards per round, as James has suggested
• implement a draft queue (Chris has been promoting this for ages)
• ban Shaun

The idealist in me favours Chris's proposal, as it does not alter the mechanics of the drafting process.

The third option might be the most effective, though. :)

Hmm.

I quite like the 2 picks/round.

May I suggest advancing by block rather than set? So from Alpha to 'Ancients' block (AN/AQ/LG), from there to Ice Age Block (IA/AL/Coldsnap ;) ) from there to Homelands ( ;) ) and from there head through all the blocks ever.

Makings racing ahead more painful, I think.

Swapping Generals sounds... eh. Not a huge fan. It's actually a fairly potent option, given you are guaranteed to have your general - Gaddock Teeg, or Llawan, or whatever other legendary men hose something... well, it strikes me as an issue.

With two picks, might want more than 5 picks to work with, else things could be a bit cutthroat.

Advancing by block rather than by set is a great idea, Glenn! It addresses the technical difficulties introduced by drafting two cards per round, as well as the long-standing concern that it's becoming increasing difficult to draft cards from recent sets. It'd be possible to advance roughly 50% faster!

While we may decide to have 100 or so picks in HoM 5 to honour EDH, the block-by-block approach may be a good option for future (60 card) drafts as well.

EDH does sound really cool. I think 2HG EDH would be a lot of fun, with randomly selected partners after the draft. To add an element of surprise because you could end up paired with someone you have been fighting for cards with, and create some crazy team deck pairings. :)

• 50 Draft Rounds
• 2 Picks Each Round
• 100 cards to build your deck plus 3 Generals
• 60 Card Deck
• 50 Life
• Best 2 out of 3 games

I think you would need to start with 3 General Drafting rounds, that can be from any set and you get to draft 3 generals and the same clash rules apply for generals. Once the Generals are drafted they can't be drafted in the rest of the draft.

It would also be nice to jump forward multiple sets if you wanted to rather than having to stay and make a draft in a set where there is nothing your after, maybe the option to move forward 2 sets or a block. This would allow people to get to RoE if they wanted to.

Craig, your suggestion that Generals be drafted separately is an interesting one, certainly worthy of consideration.

100 cards to build a 60 card deck seems a bit much, though, given that in previous drafts we've built 60 card decks from 60 cards (plus basic lands). One of the things that makes History of Magic drafts so tense is that every pick is important, unlike booster drafts where only half the cards drafted end up being played. I don't want to lose this tension.

As for jumping forward multiple sets, I think Glenn's suggestion will help here. Instead of having to pick one card from Tempest, one card from Stronghold, and one card from Exodus, you need only pick two cards from the block. This'll assist those who want to advance quickly.

I'm definitely in favour of being able to stack up picks in advance. Any restrictions of generals? It seems like there are some really sick ones in the newer sets.

I just had a chat with James. He highlighted the fact that I hadn't clarified in my mind how "two picks per round" would actually work. I'd been thinking that we'd submit two lists of five each round, but this seems wasteful.

Assuming that we're to submit just one list each round, there are two questions which must be answered:

• How many slots should the pick list contain? (Is five enough?)
• How are clashes to be handled? Specifically, if a card is contested in round 1/2, is it removed from contention for round 2/2 as well?

I think 2 picks per round is fine,

I'd be in favour of a pick list containing up to 7 cards

For clashes, I think it should be the same, if there is a clash then it's unavailable for that entire draft round.

I like the idea to be able to draft from a block and then advance by block.(This would also enable people to get to later sets sooner if they wanted)

I'm a big fan of grouping the weak sets as this will create tension more in these "sets" which are often about 1-2 strong cards. More choice (but not too much) creates interesting dynamics where you try to get a strong pick while also hating. (As opposed to what happens now where you try to get a mediocre pick while hating).

I'm not however a fan of advancing by block (in general unless changes are made, see below). As I see it advancing by block as proposed creates a number of issues:

1. You can get to the late sets way too fast. There is already ample reason to get to those end sets as seen by peoples drafting strategies, lets not make it so everyone can have a deck with ~40 cards from the late sets (assume 60 card decks). I would like to see people having to still expect to play old cards, as opposed to playing 35-40 cards from the latest sets + 5-10 cards of the most powerful "other stuff/lands" they can pick up as they move towards the late sets, whatever that "other stuff" may be, +basic lands.

2. Currently there is a tension between staying in front and falling behind. This tension weakens if people don't need to worry as much about being hated while they are in front. By including a larger pool of cards for each pick, while reducing the number of picks required from the pool, you reduce the number of clashes while in front and increase the power of the decks which rush forward. But decks coming behind also don't need to worry as much as they are getting a really strong pick either way. Overall people can pay way less attention to what others are doing as they are getting a super-strong pick no matter what happens. It almost turns the whole thing into a solitaire game where we all get our decks together, and only then start interating when we sit down to play.

Next time we draft 60 card decks (single card at a time) then group the six early week sets into two blocks which people must stay back in once each... Will make it easier for people to get to the end but hopefully not too much (only by two picks).

However if we are drafting 100 card decks then we really do need to double pick from sets. In this case possibly group all six sets as a single "super set". Then make people advance as normal taking two cards per set (or superset)... This will leave almost exactly the same proportion of cards from Ravnica onwards as has been possible in the past (just under 40% of the cards drafted assuming move forward at each chance).

The problem here is you would have to "stay behind" for 2 picks each time you want to stay behind which you lose a greater proportion of late cards by staying behind. A possible way to alleviate this would be each time you stay in a set with one of you picks you can have your other pick from the previous set you were in (or next set, shouldn't matter either way, and each will lead to interesting ways to draft). I like this, but it would not be needed, i.e. if it was deemed too complicated.

Whether you allow this or not, I don't think taking 2 cards from every block as a good solution for a 60 card deck, it could be done if you drop to 44/46 cards drafted (+ give players 4 free dual lands or some such), there would still be way less hating but at least you would not get to the late sets too soon.

With 100 cards and two cards per block this would just be silly, then you could have way too many cards from the late sets (you would only need just over 20% of the cards drafted from pre-Ravnica), and assuming you play some basic lands you would not even need to play any of these cards.

One option is to take 5 cards per block. This would leave you with exactly the same number of late set picks and we would only submit 20 times. I am not fully in favour of this option, as it seems less epic (less getting in the way of others + less submissions), still I don't think it's that bad and I would be happy to play like this, especially if we ever want a relativity quick draft.

Another option is drop it down to 80 or 90 picks, (TBH I think 100 is way too many picks anyway), make it 2 picks per block, but then make it so people must have at least 1 card from each set in the block before they are allowed to move on. (with the exception being the six early sets which have been grouped into two blocks, you don't need a card from each of those sets). This is my favourite option for EDH. You could still get further along than you would otherwise be able to (percentage-wise of cards drafted), but not by too much. Also there should still be a bunch of tension between players.

I now understand, Shaun, why you needed to give this matter your undivided attention – that's quite a response!

You've raised some good points, though, particularly the one relating to the post-Ravnica percentage. I agree that to honour the format it's important that the older cards remain relevant.

I'd been thinking: two picks per block = 50% faster = perfectly reasonable, but forgot to take into account the fact that this draft'll be 50% (or so) longer!

Perhaps two picks per block would be more appropriate in a regular HoM draft. Here's the structure I'm proposing:

• 75 card decks
• 75 draft rounds

If we were to submit two separate lists each round I don't think the draft'd be any quicker. In fact, it'd probably be slower as Shaun's slow CPU would be forced to grapple with even larger logic trees with deeply nested if/else statements.

Shaun'll be quicker at submitting picks for round X if he can see the results of round X-1, rather than having to calculate them.

This 75/75 structure preserves the old/new balance that makes History of Magic special, and hopefully increases the randomness to the point that the decks feel EDH-like.

The downside is that the draft'd be a bit longer than previous ones, but it seems hard to circumvent this without upsetting the old/new balance (or banning Shaun).

If it's going to be EDH then I think it should be 100 cards decks, in true EDH fashion.

How about this? - 3 Rounds to draft generals, i'm sure there would be some clashes. - 40 Rounds to draft 80 cards which would allow you enough cards to make a 100 card deck,. - Two picks each round. - Happy with 2 picks from a block each round.

With the actual draft if it is EDH are participants only allowed to draft cards in thier Gerneral's colours?

I certainly don't think there should be any restrictions on which cards players are allowed to draft – a History of Magic draft without a few tears would be a sad draft indeed.